Talk:Vladimir I of Kiev
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[edit] Comments
I'd like you to note that emotional stress is not necessary for encyclopedian article. Most monarchs had to finish off their rivals, and we don't call them "bloody". According to your tactics, we should mention that William the Conqueror was a bastard, and so on. Besides, Malusha was not a slave girl but a housekeeper at Olga's house (ключница). Уважаемый! у каждого явления существует две стороны. как у медали. вот, например, Малуша, с одной стороны, была рабыня, никто этого не отрицает, с другой, она стала ключницей, т.е. фактически была домоуправительницей - очень большим человеком в доме. можно писать и так и этак. меня интересует, почему Вы, человек из России, предпочитаете акцентировать внимание иностранцев на темной стороне российской истории?
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintv09.htm shows that his July 15 feast day is Roman Catholic, not only Eastern orthodox.
This is one of the worst yet. "As a heathen, he had several wives" WTF??? JHK
- Read on! As a heathen he put up statues and subdued other peoples. Evidently there's a causal link. MichaelTinkler
Bad Heathens! Bad, bad heathens! JHK
I wonder about the Yaroslav the Wise holding Novgorod 'in fief'. Is that term applicable (other than by analogy) to 10th c. Russia? I fear it's a fragment of Catholic Encyclopedia.MichaelTinkler
- Yep, there it was in the Catholic Encyclopedia. I'm going to cut the 'in fief'.MichaelTinkler
and did you know that if you google kherson, 2 of the top 10 hits are marriage-agencies? *sigh*.
The tragedy is that I used to use the Catholic Encyclopedia: I've gone off it completely after being treated to HJ's selections. Agree on the "fief" twaddle - I just wasn't cutting enough. Slash and burn! User:David Parker
- CE is still ok in parts -- but not as the only source. I have found an excellent online source...will send it to you if I can figure out how! User:JHK
It was Perun not Odin and Thor whose statues Vladimir erected. Though Perun is a slavic analog of Odin. --maqs 23:40, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)
Another important thing: St. Vladimir was baptised in Chersonesos (in Crimea, now in suburbs of Sevastopol, founded by greeks in 422-421 BC). Since 16 c. AD that city was usually called Chersonesos of Tavria (Khersones Tavricheskiy, Russian Херсонес Таврический ) or Kherson/Korsun'. The city of Kherson the article linked to was founded in 1778 AD in memory of Chersonesos.
--maqs 00:10, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)
Image on this page listed as "Historic statue in Kiev, Ukraine, appears to be of St. Andrew, not Vladimir. (unsigned)
- Anonymous, you are mistaken. That't the right statue. --Irpen 15:30, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "Trydent" of Vladimir (Volodymer) and Co
If you dont belive that members of the Ruriks family, pat. Svyatoslav, Volodymer and Yaroslav, had been using "trident"-like symbols as personal crests on coins and seals, you should look through e-net pages (even russian pages http://russianchange.narod.ru/ or http://geraldika.ru/ or http://www.gerb.bel.ru/pages/russia/retro.htm) about the early "heraldry" or Rus. The Rurikids used "trident" not because they were Ukrainian nationalists, but because it was their family symbol. Regards--133.41.4.47 14:40, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
- It is amusing to read such things, because it was me who wrote Svyatopolk I in February 2005 and uploaded real (not imaginary) trident-like symbols to this article. On the other hands, your images are factually incorrect, because exact attribution of symbols to one or another of Yaroslav's descendants is purely speculative. Even with seals, which normally bear an image of the ruler's patron saint and his name, attribution frequently presents insurmountable difficulties. What makes these images even less acceptable for an encyclopaedia, is that the symbols are clothed in the Ukranian heraldic colors, which had not been attested before the Galician period of Ukrainian history. In short, unlike the images in the article about Svyatopolk, the modernised interpretations which you uploaded are speculations with a nationalist background. Please read WP:NOR. --Ghirla -трёп- 09:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I chose gold and blue colours for the crests of Volodymer not because they are the colours of Ukrainian flag but because these colors where probably used by Kievan princes, on the contrary to other princes and slavic states that used red and white (Polotsk, Poland, Bohemia...). Kings of France used blue and gold and Byzantium empereors used purpule and gold to separate themselves from "reddish" nobility. So, why the Kievan princes couldnt do the same? In fact, the colors of the crest are not so significant as the image. Crest, or proper to say emblem, has no colours, just a form. It is not a "coat of arm". If you do not like the combination of gold and blue, thats your right. But I see no need to cut off the image. Nobody, however, knows what were the "national" colours of Rus. If my images are speculation and should be deleted from this article, please delete also other images (statues etc.) because they are "speculative" images of Volodymer. If you want put the trident images from the Svatopolk article to Vladimir which you consider to be real, go on and do it. --Alex Kov 07:20, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The heading of the article
This person has no more relation to the modern Russia, than Caesar to the modern Romania. Why the hell the Russian spelling has been used in the heading? Volodymyr would be much closer... Morkva 22:56, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- Because this spelling is used in most English language books about this period of Rus. Per WP:NC(UE):
- If you are talking about a person, country, town, movie or book, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article, as you would find it in other encyclopedias and reference works. This makes it easy to find, and easy to compare information with other sources.
- Greetings, --Irpen 23:18, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
The matter is historical justice, and the most commonly used versions are not always correct. They are also subject to change- no one uses now, for example, such names as Constantinople or Smyrna (Istanbul and Izmir instead), which once had also been the so called "commonly used versions"Morkva 16:38, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Badly written passage
I would have rewritten this passage, if I'd understood what it was saying. I don't have any books on this subject, so perhaps someone who does could clarify it:
In 987, Bardas Sclerus and Bardas Phocas revolted against the Byzantine emperor Basil II. The latter, having double-crossed Sclerus, with whom both rebels briefly joined forces, but then bardas Phocas proclaimed himself emperor on September 14, 987.
